Introducing Trade Tax [Updated Jan 22]

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d1g1t
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Introducing Trade Tax [Updated Jan 22]

Post by d1g1t »

EDIT: See end of post for explanation of where all the posts went.

It appears we have a runaway inflation problem in the Exp trading market. People unironically ask for ridiculous amounts of Exp in exchange for certain pokemon and then actually receive it.

I believe this mainly comes from there being too much exp in the 'system'. More exp gets added every day, but very little gets removed. The only time exp gets removed is when inactive accounts get deleted or when someone gets banned. And people who have a lot of exp usually give them away to their friends before quitting, so even less gets removed. This has resulted in people who are extremely 'exp rich' and can afford those ridiculous prices. That pushes the price up for everyone.

The exp reward from battles hasn't changed in a long time. The time it takes to train one million exp stays the same while prices of pokemon with three stats keeps going up, even though more such pokemon are caught every day.

I believe high exp pokemon losing some exp each time they are traded will help against this issue. I have not decided on the percentages yet, but the percentages will vary depending on the exp of the pokemon.
I will update this thread once I have decided on the numbers.

Questions You May Have:
  • What are the Tax percentages?
    [See Updated Post Below]
  • Will the Tax apply to all pokemon?
    Nope. Just pokemon that have been 'exp trained'. I'll update this post with the critera at a later time. This is unlikely to apply to pokemon with less than one million exp.
    To clarify, this only happens when you trade the said pokemon. Nothing happens to the pokemon that are just sitting in your account.
  • Will this affect QuickTrade?
    Yes.
  • Will this affect WonderTrade?
    Probably not. But if people find a way to somehow abuse it, then sure.
  • Will only the person making the offer be taxed?
    Both the person offering and accepting will be taxed.
    The tax is only applied when the trade happens, and not when an offer is made.
  • Will all pokemon have the same percentage tax?
    No. a 25mil exp pokemon will lose more in terms of percentage and exp compared to a pokemon with 5mil exp.
    [See Updated Post Below]
  • I'm not sure I understand how this tax works.
    If the tax percentage is set to 20% for pokemon with 25mil exp, and someone trades you two pokemon with 25mil, you will receive both the pokemon but with 20mil exp each (25-5)
  • Will this apply if I am trading between my own accounts?
    Yes. You're meant to train exp on your main account anyway. If you have already stored exp on your secondary account for trading, they'll be taxed the same regardless of which account you trade from. If you want to store exp on a secondary account for vanity purposes, you'll just have to account for the loss into your plan.
  • When will this be added?
    [See Updated Post Below]
  • Can I trade without this tax until then?
    Absolutely. If you have exp sitting in various accounts, this may be a good time to re-organize as you see fit. You have at least three weeks to sort this out.
  • Does this mean I could get away with trading 100 pokemon with 999,999exp each?
    I would like to add some sort of 'total exp' criteria too. I will update the post once it's decided.
    [See Updated Post Below]
  • What if I split the trades?
    You'd be reporting yourself if you report someone for scamming you when trying this.
  • This will ruin my exact exp!
    I'm sure people can create a forum guide with the exp calculator solution for each existing exact exp pokemon, to get it back to some exact exp after the trade.
    But, yes, people asking for exact exp may go down since the person receiving will have to do the work.
    [See Updated Post Below]
I'm sure there will be many unhappy with this, but this affects only a small number of people. And even among those people, this will benefit the majority of them in the long run.

If you have questions, reply below and I'll try to respond.

EDIT (December 12):
Those of you that are on discord can now use the /taxcalc command to calculate the tax using preliminary numbers.
The calculations are based on following slabs: 30% at 30mil, 20% at 20mil, 10% at 10mil and 5% at 5mil
Following are examples of the command's response
- Tax Calculated on 100,000,000 is 24,250,000
- Tax Calculated on 25,000,000 is 2,250,000
- Tax Calculated on 10,000,000 is 250,000
- Tax Calculated on 5,000,000 is 0
EDIT (December 13):
It appears about 1.5% accounts including all the secondary accounts have pokemon at 5mil and over.
And about 0.6% have 10mil and over. I am considering skipping the slab at 5mil altogether.
Which would mean only pokemon over 10mil with have the progressive tax applied. With how little tax a pokemon near 10mil with accrue, Less than 0.5% of the accounts should be affected by this tax. Even less if people sprinkling their exp among multiple secondary accounts.

EDIT on Locked Thread.
Turns out I'm terrible at explaining the basic concept of tax in an economy to users. Maintaining a debate thread seems useless at this point.
I've deleted the posts and an archive can be found at the following links - Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4

I apologize if I gave off the idea that people could prevent this by debating me or by posting brief alternate suggestions.
That said, I would certainly be taught a lesson if the top players who hate this released all their high exp pokemon in protest. Since I have claimed that exp rarely leaves the system.

If you still want to share how much you hate this, use https://www.delugerpg.net/viewtopic.php?t=27264
If you want to post alternate suggestions, use https://www.delugerpg.net/viewtopic.php?t=27260
(None of the posts were deleted for any rule violation. So you're allowed to make the same posts, you made in this thread before it was deleted, in the suggestions thread. You can find the text in the archived links above.)
Last edited by d1g1t on Sun Jan 22, 2023 2:32 pm, edited 16 times in total.
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Post by d1g1t »

Update
  • When will this be added?
    Expect it anytime after the first week of January.
  • What are the Tax percentages?
    I'm going with the slabs at
    10% @ 10mil
    20% @ 20mil
    30% @ 30mil
    Practically this means
    0 exp tax at 10mil exp and lower
    500k exp tax at 15mil exp
    1mil exp tax at 20mil exp
    2mil exp tax at 25mil exp
    (If you do not understand how tax slabs work, please use the /taxcalc command in the Discord Server)
  • Is this on the total exp in the trade?
    These slabs are for individual pokemon.
  • Does this mean I can trade 100 10mil pokemon without any tax?
    As it currently stands, yes. I'm still working on how to prevent such abuse, by using some mixture of total exp/average exp/etc.
    This may be added at a later time or at the same time as the individual slabs if I figure something out soon enough. I will update this thread if that happens.
  • Can I choose which pokemon loses how much as tax?
    No. It will be deducted from each pokemon that meets the criteria.
  • Do I have to do all the maths involved in this?
    No. The game will simply tell you when you make the offer. It should also be displayed next to offers when viewing them.
  • Will this apply if I am trading between my own accounts?
    Yes, you will be taxed. I can think of various ways players will abuse this if it wasn't.
  • My exact exp will be ruined!!!
    Since people are obsessed with this, I plan to add an option that will round up the tax amount to the nearest million for those who want it.
    For example - If you were trading a pokemon that has 27,603,958 exp, it's exp after tax would be 25,083,166. But if you opt into rounding up the tax, you would pay an extra 83,166 tax to round the final exp to 25,000,000
    (This amount will not be adjusted against other pokemon/trades)
    It probably makes more sense to make this option available to the person accepting the offer.
  • Won't Exp prices go up?
    No. Anyone who increases the exp price to account for the tax is taking advantage of you. I recommend not trading with such people.
  • Will these tax slabs always remain the same?
    This is related to the previous question. If everyone just ends up being fine with paying more, it only makes sense for me to keep increasing the tax until people are not fine paying ridiculous prices.
    Similarly, if there ever comes a time when people aren't exp training due to the tax, and there is somehow a shortage of exp in trading and prices have fallen a lot, I may reduce the tax also.
Last edited by d1g1t on Mon Jan 23, 2023 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by d1g1t »

Final Update
  • The update is ready and will be applied soon.
  • The tax slabs are the same as previously posted.
  • Tax will be applied on regular Trade and Quick Trade
  • A Tax calculator will be available. It will show you a breakdown of how the amount is calculated.
  • Tax is only calculated based on individual pokemon's exp for now.
  • The exp after tax is displayed on pages where it can be helpful. Such as on Trade Search / View Offers.
  • For regular trade, the receiver of the pokemon will be given the option to Round Down the exp of the pokemon by paying extra tax to get 'exact exp'. This is available to both parties in the trade.
  • This option will not be available for QuickTrade since there is no good reason to use it for trading such high exp.
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